Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Killing of Roi Rotberg

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Speedy Keep. SK#1: nom withdrawn, and no other deletion arguments (non-admin closure) czar ♔ 19:04, 25 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Killing of Roi Rotberg

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As the article itself says in the lede, "one incident in a long list of pre-1967 attacks." There is no special notability to this one, and the relevant policy is NOT MEMORIAL. Almost the entire content, for good measure, is a long quotation to the extent that would normally be considered copyvio at WP. DGG ( talk ) 23:45, 18 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

see my comment below DGG ( talk ) 00:01, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, but consider options. There are editors who clearly plan to memorialise every Jew ever killed by Arabs in Palestine/Israel (but of course none of the reverse) and that has to be opposed. So if this was just another example I would vote for deletion. However I vote to keep this article because the incident is very famous on account of Moshe Dayan's speech made at the funeral. If you search under the common spellings "Ro'i Rothberg", "Roi Rothberg", "Ro'i Rotberg", "Roi Rothberg", you will find many mentions of Dayan's speech, continuing to the present with no sign of abating. So this death was much more notable than most. On the other hand, I don't like the title and the article might be better written as about the speech as there is a fair bit of secondary literature about it. Zero^talk 00:42, 19 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Israel-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:18, 19 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Palestine-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:18, 19 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:18, 19 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:18, 19 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:18, 19 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Incident significant in it's own right. And as part of a major increase in corss-border Egyptian/Fedayeen attacks on Israeli in violation of treaty obligations. Also: "There are editors who clearly plan to memorialise every Jew ever killed by Arabs in Palestine/Israel (but of course none of the reverse) and that has to be opposed." Really? This is an appropriate way to talk on discussion pages?ShulMaven (talk) 11:04, 19 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, principles are important here. For the record, I will vote to delete Killing of Moshe Barsky if it comes up. Utterly unnotable. Zero^talk 11:31, 19 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Basically seconding Zero0000. The death itself isn't really notable except as a catalyst for the speech. Can it be reworked into an article on the speech, with a little bit on Rotberg's death as background? –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 22:37, 19 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Except, coverage of the incident - not the speech, the incident - in multiple academic books published within the last decade; in multiple polemical books published within the last decade; in academic articles published within the last decade; and in news and opinion articles published this summer and this decade - some of which I have added to the article. (You have to check multiple spellings, and remember that even where the incident is discussed at some length Rotberg's name may appear in the text, but not be indexed. And you would have to explain why Moshe Dayan, Leon Uris and a crowd of a thousand attended the funeral, at a small, remote and dangerous border kibbutz in an era when that meant travel was by slow local buses on lousy roads in an impoverished third-world country (Israel) in the 1950s. And wonder why editors work so doggedly to delete.ShulMaven (talk) 03:40, 20 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

As my mother used to say, "fiddlesticks". Almost every source that mentions the incident mentions Dayan's eulogy, and of the sources in the article all but one indicates that the eulogy is the reason it is famous. The fact is that without Dayan this would be nothing more than a local memory. Zero^talk 14:26, 20 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I'm looking at the academic books for starters, and they're basically talking about the eulogy. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 22:27, 21 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: request withdrawn I consider that extensive material that has now been added is sufficient to show notability, and it seems reasonable to me that the proper place to discuss the eulogy is in this article. I am withdrawing the AfD request in the light of improvements, but I cannot close it because others have expressed doubts also. I very much wish that people would not write minimal articles where the notability is not obvious. DGG ( talk ) 00:01, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: The first sentence needs to be re-worded (it's completely and utterly non-grammatical, and does not define the article title). Also, the article should probably be moved to the name only, for ease of writing the first sentence, and for ease of searching. It may be a WP:ONEEVENT bio article, but an apparently sufficiently notable one. Softlavender (talk) 20:24, 24 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.